Key Questions to Ask When Ordering V2l Adapter

The new Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6, both based on the shared E-GMP platform, support a cool “new” feature called vehicle-to-load. I use quotes because it is and it isn’t – plenty of cars have had AC outlets in them for plenty of years, and one 1.8kW inverter isn’t even that expensive on Amazon to just wire in (not that you could, on one of these cars, as I believe the DCDC converter that supplies 12V couldn’t handle 150A extra load).

Goto EraCharge to know more.

On the other hand, the car already includes a bunch of power electronics to charge the DC battery from AC, and adapting those to run in reverse as an AC supply IS both relatively new and pretty cool.

Both cars sport an interior AC outlet, and both also support AC-out through their charging port, J in the USA and Type 2 most of elsewhere in the world. As of now, the V2L connector is the one way to make use of the second option, and power stuff outside your car without running an extension cord through the window.

I mention that because, in lots of cases, it seems like a perfectly practical option. The only real points against are that you couldn’t well do that in the rain, and I can contrive at least one or two scenarios when I’d like to use AC powered devices even if it’s raining – a flea market stall, or camping with a tent, for instance. The main question is whether this device, which costs something like $500 in the USA, is worth it for that one use case. The second question is whether it holds any secrets as to whether we can get MORE power out of the car than just one outlet (your whole house, perhaps?)

So naturally I took it apart.

The first thing that jumps to mind looking at the inside is: I guess I can see why this device, produced at these relatively low volumes (a couple tens of thousand?) is super expensive. But on the other hand, it feels like it doesn’t NEED to be, and the design reads a lot like an automotive engineer got a sheet of requirements that felt too short to them, so they made some extra ones up.

For instance, look at that white shell.

That red o-ring on the right is waterproofing. It exists only to prevent water coming into the device through the power indicator LED window. But it’s a total farce for two reasons: 1. the opaque window is basically bonded fully to the shell. I’d be surprised if it isn’t totally water-tight on its own, and it could be made to be with ultrasonic welding, which is probably how it’s installed in the first place. And 2. assuming water DID leak in through the window, the o-ring would hold it in pooled contact with the LED circuit board, with no drainage path at all. That board has large, low-gauge AC wires exposed right on it. They designed in (expensive!) waterproofing that would make the failure mode MUCH worse than if the water simply dripped off that area into the rest of the device.

In stark contrast to the blue rectangle I’ve highlighted – a completely un-sealed, very-open leak path on the topmost surface, around the locking lever switch. This also leaks directly into exposed electronics (albeit at lower voltage on the neutral and proximity pilot lines).

It’s as if someone was like “this device is literally only useful in the rain, all exposed wires need to be hermetically sealed” but then someone else came along and was like “it’s impossible to hermetically seal the contacts in the plug” and then someone else said “it’s really hard to seal the lever we have to put in the USA version” so then they just gave up trying, but some expensive and questionable parts were already done.

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Consider this expensive-looking definitely-automotive-grade hermetically sealed connector they’ve chosen to attach the AC lines to the region-specific outlet interface, which isn’t hermetically sealed and also can’t be.

Why does it even have a connector in the fist place? It’s true that there are a handful of regions this device must support with different outlets, but also the entire harness is different between the Type 2 and J versions, so what’s one more thing with short wires you have to manually solder? It’s either manual labor on the connector, or on the other-connector, and it’s a totally overkill connector to boot.

Speaking of overkill, this is the LED indicator:

It’s a super straightforward design – there’s JUST a rectifier and capacitive dropper powering 3 LEDs directly off the mains voltage. If the output voltage is present, the LEDs light. Couldn’t be simpler. Although this PCB is desperately over-engineered for the task, with a test point for every net on it, and AC input coming in on like 14 gauge wires. I have no idea why these are so chonky – just to really boil any water that leaks into this cavity, I guess?

One last interesting bit of (I think) over-engineering is the thermal cutoff on the outlet itself.

The white ceramic piece is a bimetallic temperature switch that opens if it gets too hot, and in the assembly, it’s physically touching the brass contacts for the live and neutral (current carrying) contacts in the plug. The idea is, if the connection is bad and high-resistance and heats up to the point that the plastic might catch fire, this switch turns off the V2L output. Electrically, it’s the same as clicking the power switch off.

It feels a little silly to me because faulty outlets like that are caused typically by a combination of mechanical under-design and extreme old age. I think the outlet would be so annoying you’d replace the device long before it would catch fire. But on the other hand, maybe the real fault they’re designing against here is contact corrosion, on a device that’s basically expected to be used in the rain. Seems like a sensible safety interlock in that case.

In terms of overall function, I thought about drawing up a schematic, but for the most part it’s dead simple: the LED is powered directly by mains voltage present on the output when it’s enabled. The power switch and the thermal switch short control pilot and proximity together if they’re both “on” (i.e. cold). The latch handle switch connects proximity pilot to neutral via 75 ohms if the device is latched in place, or 500 ohms if it’s unlatched. And of course, control pilot gets the same treatment if the power switch is “on” since they’re shorted together in that case.

Region-specific output?

The most disappointing conclusion I have, in tandem with this British teardown and this test of a korean (J) connector putting out 120V on a USA car, is that nothing in this connector dictates what voltage the device outputs. It must be configured in the car itself. That seems to imply that a USA car won’t output 240V at higher current (like, say, 11kW) simply by plugging the right connector into it. There IS certainly possibility that more advanced communication supports higher-level output even with the hardware already on board. But this definitely precludes the possibility of simply making a passive adapter to let you, say, V2H during a power outage with the proper interlock on your panel and a generator plug (you CAN do this, but only for one phase, and only for 15A).

Here are some more pictures I didn’t include above:

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I have seen Tom rant against the use of some EV fast charging adapters, and for good reason considering the high current. But have also seen him recommend a lot of non OEM EVSEs. Though have not seen him say anything about V2L adapters.

These particular V2Ls have had good reviews from others. V2L are pretty simple devices and carry a max 15A load current, just like your regular power cords and multi outlet adapters common in every house. Of course I would be careful with anything I buy, and do my research. So far I have not found anything bad about these. This forum has had good info in the past about such devices and adapters, so hoping for some constructive and knowledgeable feedback again, and hopefully from some actual users.

As an aside, my son's Tesla EVSE went bad and started overheating at the car port. He replaced it with a 32A Morec EVSE which I have used for 5 years on my other EVs, and he has been good every since. I have also heard that some of the other OEM supplied EVSEs are not so great either. I also have a 40A Grizzl-E EVSE for my Ioniq 6, which as it happens is also recommended by Tom.

The first one at least has some certifications (although European), I would steer clear of the 2nd one.

That being said, I can endorse Lectron equipment as being well constructed, (owning and have used their NACS to J adaptor). Price is usually cheaper with first time buys and periodic sales if you keep checking.
Being curious about the V2L actual waveform output, I did some checking and found this info which indicates a fairly clean sine wave, also a tear down of the HMG version. I would want to make sure the unit I use has the thermal cut-out included, which would relieve any fire concerns.

RMS 118V @ 60 Hz, small transients at polarity crossover:

Some high fr, harmonics (make sure any connected equipment can handle):

One important point is that the product should ULC certified. Low amperage draw can still overheat if the product is not properly built and tested. Good luck with your search.

A lot of products are not ULC (like my Morec EVSE), but have the tough EU certifications and have proven to be very reliable. And some with with the UL certification have proven unreliable. Certification is no guarantee of quality. We have been through this before on this forum several years ago. Having said that, I agree UL and ULC are good to have, just not deal breakers, esp for some devices. But for higher amp applications I want the best, which is why I went with Grizzl-E for my 40A EVSE. I have had my eye on that one (research) for a couple years now.

I am not rushing this, that's for sure. My I6 already has a built in 110V 15A V2L outlet, but it is in a stupid location, under the back seat. And you have to keep the car in On or Utility mode when using it. The outside port adapter would be a lot more convenient. But if a power outage happened, I could get by with an extension chord out an open rear door window.

Meanwhile will keep an eye on the V2L adapter market. Seems to be more and more coming out at lower prices. Lectron was one of the first, and I am sure they have a lot of margin built in. It will become cheaper, and they may provide more devices, like with an included long extension chord and multiple outlets, like that 2nd link.

I have been following a discussion on this subject on another I6 forum (and where I got the original link from). This guy just built his own, says it is a pretty simple device. He uses his I6 to charge other EVs and his garage grid-tie battery. I am guessing he must get free charging for his I6 somewhere. And he doesn't like UL certification.

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Haha, I can at least vouch for this, as JuiceBox was, well, my baby... my career in the EV industry grew up along side JuiceBox as it grew up as well. The worst thing that ever happened to JB was the UL approval - it forced a change to a much less reliable relay, which met UL's fault timing requirements, whose failures (5-beep, welded relay, "stuck closed") plague the UL JuiceBoxes. Your older box has the better relay that rarely if ever had any issues.



(developing the side serial sticker on the box we really did make-it-up-as-we-go sometimes)

Anyway, as to the subject of V2L: yes, the adapter is dead simple, and the one I use every day on my I6 is one I built myself based on reverse-engineering the OEM adapter. It simply has a different value for the prox (handle latch), and the pilot signal is shorted with an on/off switch (though I don't recall the exact details). Nothing special, nothing active. It's just an old EVSE cable with the resistor tweaks applied, a push-button switch for on/off, and with an NEMA 5-15p on the end of the cable.

The port under the rear seat is, indeed, just a "tee" off the main V2L output. It has full 16a output -- it's actually 16 amps that's the limit overall (as seen in CAN data), just a hair over 15a. I use all 16 amps every day, charging my Smart EV off the I6, and charging my garage grid-tie battery after that, each night. But that's 16 amps total - if you use both ports, they share the output limit. It would be nice to have 30-or-so amps output capability! But I'm happy with the 16 amps.

Yeah, aftermarket adapters are perfectly fine for this, IMO. Don't let Hyundai overcharge you for the OEM one. Everyone should have access to this awesome feature!

Just found this one (Lectron) for a super good price, I think sale ends Oct 3
https://tools.woot.com/offers/lectron-v2l-vehicle-to-load-adapter?ref=w_cnt_wp_0_13

Well, it is IP67/IP66, but I will just be using it indoors from my garage. If I ever used it outside in the rain, I would get some kind of cover for the car port. The 16' cord to the outlets is pretty beefy, too, much larger than any extension cord I have which I would have needed if I just got the connector type. The outlet box has a breaker, too, to prevent current or short overload. And of course the car has that, too.

I just didn't want to mess with that little single V2L outlet inside the car, which would have required turning on Utility mode when using, although it would have worked in a pinch. With the outside one, you just plug it to use, and press the release button to remove, and it is held in place very securely with the lock. Reading the manual, I see you can actually use both V2L ports at the same time if you wish.

There is a traction battery SOC % parameter that you can set so you don't run it down too low.

I believe the Kona has this V2L capability, too. I say this because in the specs listing which cars are compatible they also include the Nero.

From my understanding, the inverter is onboard. When I plug it in, there is some kind of handshaking happening and a message on the dash appears indicating the V2L connector is active. I am not sure where you could find more detailed technical documents on how all that works. I think you would have to contact Hyundai for that, and if they even are willing to share it. You can look at the online manual, but all it tells you is how to use it, and some do's and don'ts.

Like you said, we should buy those products with safety certifications, I purchased the AskDog V2L adapter with FCC ，RoHS and UL certifications, and I haven't encountered any problems in using it so far, no matter whether it's for outdoor gatherings or using computers in the car to use it to transfer electricity, it's been a great convenience for me, and it's much more reassuring to have the safety certifications to use it.